SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all,
Yearlong lurker, first time poster.
 
I won’t get into all the details of my story since it’s a wild ride, but in short D-Day was almost a year ago. I (34F) discovered that my WH (41M) had been having an EA with a coworker. The affair been going on for 8 months. The fallout of D-Day led to the additional discovery of multiple instances of online infidelity throughout the course of our almost 5-year marriage, but that’s too much to get into with one post.
 
WH cut all ties with AP after discovery, and we’re working to rebuild our marriage. For his part he has actively worked to pursue and drive reconciliation efforts (individual & couples’ therapy, disclosure to trusted family & friends for accountability, full access to all accounts, phone, etc.) and is remorseful, but everything has been hard for me to navigate emotionally. There is one hurdle we’re trying to navigate now that has proved especially difficult for me.
 
WH has always dreamed of being a pilot. Ever since he was a child. His family has a strong aviation background, so he grew up around planes and people who love planes. This dream is something we’ve discussed since the early days of our relationship/marriage (before AP entered the picture), but he never had the opportunity to pursue.
 
Apart from being his coworker, AP is currently a student pilot – so this shared passion for aviation is one of the things they bonded over. She even promised to help teach him how to fly.
 
Recently he’s renewed focus on trying to pursue a career as a pilot. He states part of this is a desire to reclaim aspects of himself that he loved before he shared them with AP and they were "tainted" by the affair, but another large part is due to extreme discontent in his current workplace and a drive for a more fruitful career. And time is running out the older he gets to realize this dream. I want to be supportive since I know this is something he’s always strived for, but I have some understandable trepidation about him pursuing this now given the connection with AP.
 
I don’t know fully what the odds are that they’ll run into each other – we’re in a tristate metro area with a huge aviation focus, and her school is not in our state. He is actively avoiding areas she had discussed with him to minimize the risk of bumping into each other, and bringing me along when possible. I guess I’m more concerned with the lingering memories, connection, etc. and what actively placing himself in a situation that reminds him of her means.
 
I know that ultimately I have no control over that, and I’m trying to just let him show me with his actions what he’s capable of doing in regards to rebuilding our marriage. The struggle I’m facing is more with me personally feeling like an unsupportive spouse because of my hesitation and connections this has with AP.
 
Any thoughts on how to navigate this? Am I being blind (again) and ignoring a giant red flag in him choosing to pursue a career in flying now? Or am I overreacting due to fear?
 
Thanks for your time & support.

This might not be directly on topic but here goes…

I don’t think there are many careers with a lower return on investment than a commercial pilot. To even make the cut of being eligible for the next step you need hours and hours of fly-time simply to get the basic pilot license, and then more hours to get the next stage, the next stage and the next stage before even being eligible for a professional license. By the time you can even apply for an interview for a paid job as a pilot you are heavily financially invested, and all the young pilots in their early thirties, right out of the military with glowing recommendations and proven training will be ahead of your husband. And that’s for the small commercial town-hopping routes.
The glamorous fly-to-distant-destinations jobs… once you graduated with your engineering degree while getting your pilots license, did your time in the Air Force, maybe a couple of years lake-jumping in Alaska and then a couple of years on the minor routes with Delta/AA/JetBlue as co-pilot before being selected for 6 months training in simulators and THEN advancing to the Big Planes – as copilot.
At 40… your hubby will be all of 45 or so before he can even start looking at a career hauling freight between villages in some remote destination. If he get’s hired ahead of all the younger pilots…
Frankly – It’s like if I at 60+ were to rekindle my teenage-dream of becoming a world-renowned rock drummer.

I think your husband needs a dose of reality…
Maybe a career that is involved with the aerospace industry, or a private pilots license for personal enjoyment… Or maybe just MS Flight Simulator…

On the infidelity side:
Yes – he could meet her again if he rekindles his pilot-fantasy. But seeing as how she’s a co-wprker and for all I know they still work together… then if he wanted this to start again he could anyways.

I think his time and your marital money would probably be better spent with IC where he works on why he’s so unsecure and therefore unhappy with his life’s trajectory.

I agree that if they're still co workers I'd be far more concerned about that than the chance of them bumping into each other in the aviation world.

Right now I think he should be more focused on your marriage than majorly switching gears and pursuing a career with the kind of time investment that commercial piloting involves at 40 years old.

I’m not weighing in on his career. That is between the two of you to decide. But remember we all had dreams as a younger self of our career paths - some were lucky enough to achieve it and others had to let it go for one reason or another.

At 5 I wanted to be a ballerina. At 10 I wanted to be a dancer in Broadway shows. I had no talent for this. By 18 I really wanted to be a journalist/sportswriter lol. I had talent but didn’t want to be scrambling for work. I ended up in a very rewarding field and l am thankful for that.

As far as the OW, IMO it’s not the known OW you need to worry about. Often when it’s over it’s over. However it’s the unknown in your H that triggers these things like EAs that should be your concern.

And honestly you should not be concerned about supporting him right now. You need to be in the driver’s seat of your future and life as a couple and setting expectations of your future together.

Now is not the time for him to undertake a major career change while your marriage is hanging by a thread so to speak.

Again just my opinion but he can certainly get a pilot’s license for pleasure only. That should satisfy some of his passion.

Thank you all for your responses. To clarify a few things:

WH and AP are no longer coworkers. After D-Day, WH went NC and switched to an opposite shift to ensure there’d be no interaction with AP during the workday. AP quit shortly after and who knows what her situation is now – she could have even dropped out of flight school for all I know.

Bigger, I really appreciate the insight you have into flight as a career and I realize I should have clarified a bit in my original post... The plan right now isn’t necessarily to pursue commercial flight. We’ve discussed the high risk/low return nature of flight school as well as his career chances once he’s actually done, so the plan is to start slowly by pursuing a private pilot’s license first and see where that can take him career-wise (even if it’s just side gig stuff). The primary goal is to get him up in the air and if he can somehow build a career from that or from the connections he makes through school, that would be ideal (even side gig work potentially). If not, we pursue this as far as funds & mental health allow.

WH is also currently in IC (as am I).

Just wanted to provide a bit more color on those few points.

As an ex USN Aviation - serviceman - I double-second Biggers notes on becoming a commercial pilot.
I've known personally a couple of commercial pilots. More than half are dissatisfied with their jobs.

Best option I think is to have him research what a career path will look like if he tries to become a $$ earning pilot.

Next option - still pricey - WAY more than owning a boat. There are airplanes not so expensive for sale - you can search on-line to see. However, they will all be the smallest of airplanes, non-acrobatic, and - BIG and - there is very little a pilot can do in maintaining his airplane as FAA requires LICENSED mechanics do all work (other than check air in tires and clean windshields) to be performed. Also, airplanes are maintained on a TIME and landing/take-off/time flying schedule. So, go look at the prices for mandatory stuff that has to be done. Periodic inspections, check. Certain very important parts swapped out due to time/use limit reached, check. And the Biggee - engine overhaul.

Only people Like our President can afford a big, nice airplane.

He could opt to get a private license - again, mandatory training rules ($$) and just RENT an airplane when he gets a hankering to flit around in the sky. Cessna 172 (one of the most durable, safe small airplanes) rents for around a couple $hundred - per HOUR.

I think you need to pay close attention to bigger, but I am going to encourage your husband to look at it as a hobby. It’s expensive as all get out, but it is pleasurable. On the other hand if he gets a plane, he’d better know how to look after it because there are too many small plane crashes in the United States and it’s because of poor mechanical care. I do know what man that I worked with that had a relatively poor paying government job, but he was in his 30s and started flying in his off hours. To be honest, I don’t know if he had a plane, but I know that he flew every weekend so he must’ve spent every penny he had. Eventually, he got good enough and applied to fly government bigwigs around and that’s how he was able to eventually retire from his small job and just be a pilot for the state we live in. He loved it. I assume he’s still doing it. I have not seen him in years. I’m going to mention planes like I do boats. Boats are a big hole in the water that you pour money into and planes are pretty much the same. Your husband needs to sit down and look at the financial part of things. I suggest he just take lessons. If they allow him some of the controls eventually then he might get real pleasure from that without sinking every penny, you have into something that will not pay off.

Thanks all. Appreciate your perspectives on my situation and how to approach & handle everything. Sounds like WH and I may need to have some further alignment/clarification on his plans to pursue this, and I need to take a step back and shift some of my focus back to me.

Muddy waters are difficult to wade in, but ya'll have made it a little easier. Glad I finally decided to post and seek some more support for myself!

Nope.

Just no.

He cheated and he gets to have a go at chasing his dreams?, absolutely not!.

What are your dreams?, what do you want to do?

Maybe one reason I was so… negative… about the piloting career is that I just had my house painted by a great, reliable and successful commercial painter… who WAS a commercial pilot.
He made it through the early ranks and worked for some time on a small charter servicing big industry. Flying repair crews and spare-parts to remote areas. Only… after a couple of years and a few interviews with the big companies he realized that he wouldn’t make the cut to fly commercial jets long-distance. Got tired of working minimum wage so he took over his dad’s commercial painting company.
I’m guessing from what I paid him he can have someone else fly him to some sunny destination…

I’m fine with your husband getting his private license. I would be fine with 1stWife getting a tutu too. To each his own.

But make sure it’s not at the cost of some extra hardship for the family. Like… he might have to take a longer period to qualify simply because the marital money needs to be prioritized to food, savings, pension…
I’m an avid fly-fisher. I could spend thousands on a single rod, or go to Alaska for a guided fishing tour. Yet I don’t. I can’t fit it into the budget of "this is for the family, this is for me and wife as a couple, and this is for ME". His hobby needs to fit the budget of "this is for ME".

Voice your concerns to him.
Let him know that you are happy for him to have passion for something but you fear he might fall for her again, or some other woman with a shared passion. Maybe you two find something you both are passionate about and focus some time on that.

I’m not going to focus specifically on his dream to be a pilot. My take is that WS’s are often very unhappy with themselves and their perception of their reality. This is part of what sends them looking elsewhere for external validation and "happiness." They are deeply unhappy with themselves and rather than work on their big issues, they look for something else to make them happy. If I only had a pilot’s license, if I only had someone who "made" me happy, etc.

Gently, you glossed over the fact that he’s had multiple "minor" infidelities as well as the current one. I urge you to not think about his childhood dream and his desire to focus on it now as different from his tendency to chase what he doesn’t currently have. As others have pointed out, this is not the time for him to be chasing his dreams, whatever they may be. This is a time when his sole focus should be on the destruction and pain and harm to others that he’s caused.

His BIG educational and developmental project right now should be figuring out his shit and becoming a decent spouse and partner and parent. Period. This is not a small job. It is huge. Figuring out how to be an honest and caring partner is a huge challenge for most waywards. He may be really remorseful right now, but waywards always—always—need to really dig deep into the lifelong tendencies and thought patterns and behaviors that have led them to pursue affairs. His refocus on piloting right now is, regardless of how long he’s been interested in it, a way to distract him and chase the next happy pill. If I only had my pilot’s license, I’d finally be happier. . .

What I want to say is that I sense a small amount of pick me in your response to his desire. We often as betrayeds think, wow, how unhappy he must have been to be doing this. How can I make him happier with his reality and our marriage? We turn our attention to fixing EVERY problem and getting things back on track. If he’s so unhappy, how can I help him get what he wants so he won’t look for it elsewhere?

I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, but really, sweet sister, the last thing you should be worried right now is how HE can be happy and reach his dreams. It’s a distraction for you to the healing that you need to be doing. It’s also a distraction for him of doing the real work and education that he needs to do. It’s also a distraction from what should be the focus: what he’s done to you, how and what he needs to do to support your healing, and how he became a person who can cheat and lie to his spouse.

So I’ll be a wet blanket and say, no dream-chasing for him right now. Both of you need to be firmly focused on reality and the now. Becoming a pilot won’t make him happy until he has figured out what’s broken inside him and address his own internal, intrinsic validation and happiness with who he is. Until then, whatever he’s off chasing next will just be more of the same.

My two cents for what it’s worth. I’m so sorry that you’re here and going through this. It is the worst.

I would be fine with 1stWife getting a tutu too.

ROFLMAO. Thank you for my laugh of the day.

A woman in my church was a professional ballerina for many years. She was very talented and danced as long as she could.

I’ll stick to dancing to some good dance music at the local bar.

Thanks for the encouragement lol

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:54 PM, Wednesday, April 8th]

I agree that the H seems to be impulsive. Not his first affair or misstep here.

I was in your shoes after my H’s first EA of 4 years. He refused to admit it (yet I knew it was going on). I allowed it to be swept under the rug and I now recognize it was a huge mistake.

Second time around I was a very different person at dday2 of affair2. If I said "no" to something I didn’t back down. I didn’t care about "his feelings" for a period of time b/c I had to put myself first. And that meant I needed to be able to make decisions in my best interest.

I don’t know if MC is in individual counseling but I am suggesting it. It helped me tremendously to figure out what I wanted and needed from my H going forward.

I wonder if the struggle is if there is a "no" to the flying / pilot idea she fears he will become resentful of her and possibly cheat again.

IMO that is no way to live — especially coming off an affair. FWIW the cheating husband should be afraid MC will leave him! Not the other way around.

His BIG educational and developmental project right now should be figuring out his shit and becoming a decent spouse and partner and parent. Period. This is not a small job. It is huge. Figuring out how to be an honest and caring partner is a huge challenge for most waywards. He may be really remorseful right now, but waywards always—always—need to really dig deep into the lifelong tendencies and thought patterns and behaviors that have led them to pursue affairs. His refocus on piloting right now is, regardless of how long he’s been interested in it, a way to distract him and chase the next happy pill. If I only had my pilot’s license, I’d finally be happier. . .

I agree and as his IC told him, "you can't ride two horses with one butt." We've both discussed at length that if during his pursuit our endeavors to rebuild our marriage take the backseat, that's it. And I reserve the right to make a judgment call at any time as to whether or not I think he's putting in the right work to become a safe, stable partner.

I’m not saying that’s what you’re doing, but really, sweet sister, the last thing you should be worried right now is how HE can be happy and reach his dreams. It’s a distraction for you to the healing that you need to be doing. It’s also a distraction for him of doing the real work and education that he needs to do. It’s also a distraction from what should be the focus: what he’s done to you, how and what he needs to do to support your healing, and how he became a person who can cheat and lie to his spouse.

I wonder if the struggle is if there is a "no" to the flying / pilot idea she fears he will become resentful of her and possibly cheat again.

I agree that there's probably a bit of both coming into play, and I moreso think those feelings are a byproduct of the struggle I'm experiencing. How do I toe the line between being supportive, but also enforcing boundaries and placing my healing first? WH and I have been together for a total of 11 years, and 2 years into our relationship I was offered a promotion with the caveat that I'd have to move across the country to a different office. WH supported me during this time, and after 3 years of long distance moved out to be with me. There's a lot of unresolved emotions/resentment from that time that we are just now coming to realize and dig into together - none of which means that I deserved to be cheated on, he had justification for an affair, etc., but no affairs happen in a void. And this just happens to be part of our story.

That being said, during that period of long distance and after he moved out, I was by no means a model spouse. Again, not taking blame on myself - this comes after some serious self-reflection and denial. But it's important that I recognize and admit where my own failures as a spouse lie so that I can be a better person for myself, and any partner I may have in the future (whether it's WH or someone else). One of the areas in which I need to focus most on is supporting others to the extent that they uplift & support me. I expected WH to support me unequivocally in my decision to up & leave him for a job, and he did at the time. I have not always done the same in the past, for him or others.

I guess I was looking at this as an opportunity to practice that, but maybe I need to take WH's IC's advice instead and not try to ride two horses with one butt. I need to focus on healing from the affair, and can then throw some energy (once I have it) at self-improvement.

none of which means that I deserved to be cheated on, he had justification for an affair, etc., but no affairs happen in a void

This is a really important thought to give time and consideration too. Maybe it’s true that no affairs happen in a void. . .BUT that void is not in any relationship he might have, your marriage included.

The void that an affair does or doesn’t happen in lives inside HIM. There are many many people in truly terrible marriages who don’t cheat. There are many many people married to amazing people who do. The only constant is that there is something going on INSIDE the person who cheats. And it has almost always been there LONG before they met their spouses.

Please really work at removing the "affairs don’t happen in a vacuum" thought from your considerations because whether you realize it or not, it is you taking blame NOT for the affair itself, but for the CONDITIONS that created the affair. No, no, no. The conditions that created the affair(AFFAIRS because he did this multiple times, it is a pattern within him of choosing this way to cope with difficulties) lives in his way of thinking about himself, his relationships, and what he’s entitled to if he’s not particularly happy at any given moment.

Keep in mind that he could have talked to you about his frustrations. He could have said that he was unhappy and wanted a divorce. He could have even given himself 100 percent to that pilot dream of his. He CHOSE, because of his own thought patterns and established unhealthy coping mechanisms most likely, to repeatedly go outside the marriage without telling you and lie at the very least by omission to you repeatedly, habitually.

These things are about him, not the marriage. They are about how he has learned to deal with difficulties and unhappiness, including happiness with himself. They have nothing to do with the specifics of your marriage or how you did or didn’t treat him. Those are things you deal with directly. Affairs are never initiated to fix a problem in a marriage. They just aren’t about the marriage at all. Please try to internalize that. Whatever the solution to your marital issues is, it is completely and utterly separate from the issue of him having affairs (and any of a number of other unhealthy, destructive ways to address disappointment) to make himself feel better rather than dealing with life’s challenges and his own shortcomings head on.

I say all this because it sounds like you both want to work on things which is great. In order to do that in a way that will work, he really has to accept (and so do you) that HE is the vacuum that the affairs happened in. He has to address all of that on his own and discover what in him drives him to do that. You’ve only been married 5 years, together twice that, and he’s had multiple inappropriate relationships. That is his work to do now, and unfortunately, you can’t really help him with that alone. Dealing with that is part of the necessary and logical consequence of his choices.

He heals and corrects himself. You work on your own healing with his support because he caused the hurt. Then, you can both work on having a new, healthier marriage going forward. But none of those steps can be skipped.

Wishing you healing and peace.

Any thoughts on how to navigate this? Am I being blind (again) and ignoring a giant red flag in him choosing to pursue a career in flying now? Or am I overreacting due to fear?

I think the red flag here is less about the AP or the practicality of being a pilot, and more of everything that NowWhat106 said. Your WH pursuing his aviation dreams right now shows that he's still in a selfish mindset. His focus should be on healing - himself, you, and the marriage. If that means giving up this dream, then so be it. Those are the consequences for the choices he made.

He is actively avoiding areas she had discussed with him to minimize the risk of bumping into each other, and bringing me along when possible.

This indicates to me that he is well aware of the pain and friction caused by him chasing his pilot license, and yet he's choosing to go ahead with it. Once again, he's putting himself ahead of you and the marriage. This is definitely a red flag.

I was in some similar situations with my STBX, and he 100% sulked when I said that I didn't like him pursuing a particular Interest. It doesn't really matter what the Interest is, or even whether the BS is being "reasonable" - when we've been hurt and traumatized, reason goes out the window. Security needs to be rebuilt before reason can settle back in. One of the reasons that my WS is now my STBX is because he couldn't accept this. He couldn't/wouldn't give up the Interest. He felt entitled to purse his Interests, and he figured that I should be okay with that as long as he wasn't pursuing other women.

MartiniCat, right now, you need your WS to put aside his Interest because it's strongly associated with his AP, and there isn't enough security in your marriage for you to handle that. You need to be up front with him about this. And you need to be prepared for his sulking and stand firm in the face of it. If that doesn't work out, then likely your R will end up like mine.

I completely agree with what NowWhat106 wrote. I hope you can take it to heart and really let it sink in. You are in no way, shape or form responsible for your WH's decisions to have affairs. Nothing you ever did or didn't do, nothing you ever said or didn't say, would have made any difference at all. Nothing. Zip. Zilch. Nada.

Lady, sit down and share your martini 🍸 with or without cats.

For the bitter taste, how do you feel? What is going on with your emotions right now?

Do you feel relaxed like sipping a martini with your cat on your laps? Or do you you feel on edge, scanning mentally for what you might do to regain your balance and center?

Now focus on the olive 🫒 in your Martini. That is you, stabbed through your core with something worse than the toothpick in the olive, floating in a liquid whose purpose is to fog your mind, not in the pleasurable way that it might, but in the all encompassing hangover that gives you regrets the day after.

The slice of lemon next to it is not adding flavor but pouring acid into the open wound.

That’s not a drink you want to sip to. You thought it was but the bartender was just badly messing up.

Now give it here, let me pour it into the sink, I shall give you a clean glass.

Now you have a clean slate to fill with another Martini.

Ask your self what do you want, as for flavor, experience and emotions. Do you want to be the stabbed olive floating around again, or would you rather be the lady holding the drink and sipping it as she pleases?

The bartender owes you the best drink of your life now, he messed up badly and you have no need to apologize to him for the awful drink.

You owe nothing, you have right to get what you asked for, or leave this awful bar free of charge.

The bartender is your cheating husband. I sense you are stressing yourself about making sure he is happy and commended for serving you those awful drinks.

He will never learn if he is the center of attention. It’s a role reversal, it’s you who should be cared for, and double down on making his best for ruining your stomach with that crappy drink.

What do you feel, what do you want?

More important in this story is you, now and if the bitter taste of the awful drink can be ever washed out from your mouth.

You matter here, only you and what you feel.

The sucky bartender is not owed a thing. He just better step up his game.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:12 AM, Thursday, April 9th]

I agree with the above posters that YOU should not be looking to support him or his dreams or goals.

Especially since it is connected to his affair.

And if you really feel that saying no right now to his pilot passion, then your marriage is in more trouble than you think.

I can share that in the beginning of my husband‘s affair. I was so afraid he was going to leave me I was willing to do almost anything. Let me tell you how that thought process yearly cost me everything including my sanity.

Long story short, he was basically flaunting his affair in my face by telling me all about the other woman and her desires and what she wanted blah blah blah. He did not take him into account me or our children or our 25 years together, it was all about him and his midlife crisis.

Fortunately, and about the six month mark, I woke up. I realized he was not invested in this marriage and I had nothing left to work with. It was clear it was time to divorce.

The only reason things changed was because I changed. I stop being a doormat. I stopped putting his needs first. I stop putting everybody else first. I finally decided I had to come first and do what was best for me and the kids.

And that was making a decision to divorce my husband because he was no longer a person I recognized

Allowing his first emotional affair to be swept under the rug was the biggest mistake I ever made. I honestly believe it allowed him to cheat a second time because he never suspected I would find out.

I am hoping that your husband wakes up and recognizes what he needs to do to make amends and help you to be able to trust him —because if he doesn’t and those doubts linger, they are going to grow and fester and cause more problems down the line.

Again, now is not the time for you to be supporting his dreams. He needs to be supporting you to help you recover from his affair that should be his 100% top priority for the next few years.

If this was a lifelong dream and his family came from an aviation background, what was stopping him from pursuing his dreams when he was younger?

Further, why does he think that right now-- after he's blown up your universe-- is the optimal time to invest hundreds of hours and thousand of dollars into this new career path?

If he's unhappy with his current job, why not pursue job training in a profession that he could realistically transfer his current skills to, as opposed to a job like commercial piloting, which would be, at best, a non-lucrative side gig?

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 7:43 PM, Thursday, April 9th]