SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm a gay man. Married ~5 years, together ~7 years, husband's secret double life just came out — how do I know if this is salvageable?

Husband (39, gay, Muslim, from a culturally conservative background re being gay) and me (42, gay, liberal values but believed in monogamy or at least discussed boundaries). We have been together since just before Covid in 2019.

Ten days ago, on a trip abroad, I discovered he's had a hidden sexual life running alongside our marriage — multiple secret accounts, encounters with other men ('professional' massage where he was nude, male masseur wasn't, non-professional casual massage exchanges in the nude, apparently only one in-person meetup for sexual contact, ongoing explicit chats/ sexting and nude image exchange across multiple platforms), going back an unclear length of time. He says it "only started this year," but the scale and sophistication of what he'd built makes that hard to believe. Admitted only to professional massages as his discretion throughout the whole relationship.

Since discovery: lots of trickle-truth (I've had to find almost everything myself), a written "disclosure" that still feels carefully worded to avoid full honesty, and now individual therapy has started for him with him asking to change this to a couples session in a couple of weeks.

Our sex life had been a long-standing problem before any of this — I always initiated, raised it repeatedly, nothing changed. I suspect a lot of our intimacy was obligatory on his side rather than desired.

He says he loves me and is committed to fixing this. But remorse mostly only shows up when I push for it, not unprompted. Day to day life has weirdly settled into a kind of uneasy normal.

I'm not making big decisions yet — just watching whether real change follows the words, or whether this is as much honesty as I'll ever get.

Has anyone been through something like this? What actually told you whether it was worth staying, and how long did it realistically take to know?

Brother,

Infidelity has no sexual orientation either, it hits us all in the same way, male and females alike, the details might vary, but the driver is always the same.

A cheater cheats because of unresolved issues:

- Low self worth (and all those traits stemming from it: people pleasing, perfectionism, overachieving, etc)
- Craving external validation

It doesn't matter if you are gay or not, it doesn't matter if your values align or not.
So think about the ideology (liberal, conservative, whatever) it matters even less! Furthermore it is often a mask to shield the Wayward partner from any accountability for their infidelity / affairs!

I suggest you throw that out the window immediately while confronting and will refuse any attempt of your Wayward Husband to bring it up, because it will be used as a smoke screen to gaslight you even more and thicken his affair fog even further (example: 'I thought it was ok since you are liberal / conservative [ add random bullshit excuse here] = you get gaslighted and they shift the blame and accountability)

The only thing that matters here is: You - Him - Your Connection

The most important one in the above is YOU.

You are the victim of abuse. Betrayal is one of the deepest wound and Trauma a human being can experience. The PTSD from this is horrible.

Your goal is to protect yourself from this fallout and survive infidelity. Heal and reclaim your agency and stability, so you can live free of infidelity.

He says he loves me and is committed to fixing this. But remorse mostly only shows up when I push for it, not unprompted. Day to day life has weirdly settled into a kind of uneasy normal.

He is not feeling remorse nor guilt. That is called shame.

A very different beast. Imagine this:

"I feel horrible for what I did to you, I am disgusted with myself. I understand if you don't want to ever see me again or having me in your life, I wouldn't want someone like me either. Whatever it takes I will show up for you, to help you with your pain, which I caused, I will always be there, and I will understand if it comes a day that you will never want to see me again. For I deserved it after the evil I have done to you" --> Guilt, remorse

"I am sorry you think you should feel bad for what I have done. I am just doing what makes me happy, because I deserve it. I am not doing anything THAT bad, I even kept it hidden so you won't know. Unfortunately you found out and now you are hurting. This makes me feel uncomfortable because you look at me as I were a bad person. I don't like that, so please get over it already, I don't feel good the way you look at me, I need your love and validation. Look I will also do whatever you want to calm you down. You need the truth? I will give a curated version. You need loyalty? I will fly low for now and will be more careful in the future so you don't find out. Just deal with it and stop making ME feel bad." --> Shame

Guilt is accountability, empathy, love. Truth and commitment follow it.
Shame is selfish, avoidance, irresponsible. Lies and more infidelity follow it.

I'm not making big decisions yet — just watching whether real change follows the words, or whether this is as much honesty as I'll ever get.

You need to make the biggest decision of your life now if you don't want to be completely destroyed. You must heal yourself.
This does not mean an outcome (Diveroce or Reconciliation), forget outcomes, have no attachment to those.

The only thing you have control over is yourself.
Put yourself first. Reclaim your agency. Reclaim the power to choose your Husband stolen from you.

He is not honest with you right now, he is just ashamed he's been found out. No remorse, no accountability, only trickle truth. The usual pattern.
There's no change that will happen because only HIM can choose to change. You cannot force him to, you cannot shame him into change. It needs to come from within him.

He is not remorseful or helping, he is managing you to put you in a safe and comfortable spot so he can rugsweep this and move on, while you will stay stuck in hell.

Read on the healing library about the 180, tactical primers etc.

You need to protect yourself emotionally, you were never given the choice about his infidelity. Now you have the choice to decide if you want to live with infidelity or reclaim your self love and agency.

I know it's hard buddy, we're all faced with hard choices in this club. But the only hope to heal is to put yourself first and set iron boundaries. No matter if what follows will be Divorce or Reconciliation, that is the last step.

If you don't you will have nothing but infidelity, and eventually you will be destroyed and have to pick one out of desperation.

Put yourself first.

Has anyone been through something like this? What actually told you whether it was worth staying, and how long did it realistically take to know?

We all have been. Men, women alike, hetero or gay, it's always the same movie.

The outcome is also almost always the same movie. If you 180 and set boundaries that clearly say: I will not accept infidelity in my life, things change.

If you don't they stay the same, you live a life of lies and infidelity, you will keep falling into that dark abyss eventually, even years from now when you thought you were over it.

The only thing that may make it worth to wait before divorcing or breaking up is this: seeing true remorse, accountability and truth from your wayward partner.

Only if a WS is ready to crawl naked over broken glass to beg for forgiveness, then you might consider if it's worth to wait.
An unremorseful WS is not worthy a second of your time. You have been sexually and emotionally abused. The golden rule in abuse is to remove the abuser from the victim.

A BS opening up to the CHANCE of Reconciliation is not a thing the WS is entitled to. Reconciliation is a gift, a second chance that no WS ever deserves. It is YOU and only YOU who call the shots here, and you can back out of it at any time.

The WS has no say in this.

The BS heals the BS
The WS heals the WS
Together, once healed, eventually they can try to heal the relationship.

Is not something that happens fast and it is a lot of pain and work.

Your Husband is not there, he is not even remorseful. Couple Therapy?

Nah it's bullshit at this stage, he is trying to manage you so he can get you stuck where it is comfortable for him.

You need IC to heal from your trauma.
He needs IC to heal from his dysfunction. (but he needs to want to change first. I don't think he is there just yet)

You need to detach from outcome and see if he cares enough to take accountability and look into himself and what's wrong with him, instead of avoiding and gaslighting you.

Above all you need to be able not to keep all this emotional chaos inside. Your voice and pain needs to be heard. You have been heard.

I hope you find peace.

First, I want to say thank you to BackfromtheStorm. The breakdown of shame versus guilt was a massive reality check for me. I can clearly see now that he is trying to manage my reaction to keep himself comfortable, rather than actually facing the destruction he caused.

Right now, I am struggling with the day-to-day reality of surviving this and trying to implement the 180.

I'm hitting a wall for two main reasons, and I would be happy to receive advice:

1. The Expat Isolation

My husband and I emigrated together to Australia from the UK. Because of that, our lives here are deeply enmeshed. Every single local friend we have is a "couple friend" we made together. My oldest friends and my family are all back in the UK, which means I'm dealing with a 7-hour time difference and physical distance.

I have no local support network that is just mine. For those of you who went through this while isolated from your core support system, how did you handle the sheer loneliness of it?

2. The 180 feels petty

I've read the theory behind the 180, I need to detach emotionally to protect myself. But in practice, it feels unnatural. Because our lives are so intertwined, doing things like cooking a separate meal for myself or doing only my laundry, or giving short answers feels like I'm giving passive-aggressive silent treatment.

It feels like playing games, and it's not what I'm like, I say things how they are. Right now, my only real escapes are taking the dog for walks or throwing myself into my work shifts.

How do I execute a polite but unavailable 180 without feeling like I'm being petty or vindictive? What do those boundaries actually look like when trying to untangle shared routines?

I want to know more as I am certain I've only been given the tip of the iceberg and that infuriates me as I strongly believe in transparency and honesty. Though from all I read I know I need to stop digging for more lies and just stabilise.

The day-to-day mechanics of living with him is actually a bit exhausting and so having things fall into normality feels like it's easier. But then what changes.

Any further practical advice is appreciated.

Let us know when the anger phase hits. 😂

That phase will propel you to make very different decisions.

Protecting yourself by doing the 180 is not petty. It’s done for a reason. And the reason is self preservation.

You have not gotten a real answer to your questions. The cheater admitting only to what you uncovered is what is cruel and petty IMO.

Couples therapy is NOT recommended. Too many therapists and counselors allow the cheater to blame the betrayed spouse as a "reason for cheating". Not what you need to hear right now.

You did nothing wrong. You weren’t too nice or too thin or too much of a good cook or not nice or unsupportive etc. IMO these are just excuses the cheater uses to justify the affair. The only reason someone CHOOSES to cheat is because they wanted to cheat.

Lastly couples therapy won’t work if the cheater has not yet addressed their issues and fixed them. A cut that requires 10 stitches will not stop bleeding with a band aid. And right now couples therapy is a band aid slapped over a person who cheated and is still being intentionally cruel and dishonest by not telling you what occurred.

Read the book HOW TO HELP YOUR SPOUSE HEAL FROM YOUR AFFAIR by Linda MacDonald. There are some very good podcasts out there too that can help you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:45 AM, Monday, July 13th]

1- I did it completely alone. No therapy either. 20 years of spiraling, ptsd, getting suicidal until snapped out of it.

Today I am nearly unbreakable and reclaimed it all and then some. Not recommended though.

If you have no support system at hand, IC therapy is the best pick with someone specialized in betrayal trauma.

Also this forum is a safe place to get support, with people who understand what you are going through.

In time you will see people who did not live betrayal really don't understand its devastation (they are deeply uncomfortable to even touch the topic, it's the instinct telling the subconscious that is bad. Really bad. stay away. run away - from the betrayed pain).

2- The 180 is not petty at all.

If you cannot leave your Wayward partner outright it is the only form of self preservation.

You begin to live as the relationship is over. Even if you still live with your abuser, you detach, you only interact for the practical day by day chores and routine.

But detach. Not as in "pretend"not as in "perform". You REALLY detach as in "it's over".

It's your firmest and first statement that you will not accept living under infidelity.

The partner, remorseful or not, will get the message. And can do absolutely nothing about it.

You hold ALL the power now.

Even if there will be a reconsideration from the Wayward and you might be open to the chance of reconciliation, the 180 will have you as protected until the moment you can regain some of the balance he stolen from you, enough of your center that you will be able to make a decision out of greater clarity, rather than out of the chaos and pain you are living today with every heartbeat.

That's why you read "you must be ready to lose your marriage if you ever want a chance to save it".

You come first. All the rest is irrelevant if compared to reclaiming the peace you lost.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 2:05 PM, Monday, July 13th]

180 has begun.

I'm in the spare room, I made my own dinner just for me, and when he asked why, I told him that it's because I need space.

The dog is by my side, he's probably excited for an adventure in the spare room!

Already WP is off kilter by this.

Thank you for the advice. This is horrible but it feels like I'm doing something.

Brutal here. Please leave out male, female, straight, gay. None of that matters. Someone you trusted WITH YOUR HEART has harmed you. Harmed! In other words they deliberately did something that has altered your life.

This is the only reality you have. Your life was hijacked by an immoral person who would not feel guilt if it hit him in the face. You need to be very honest with yourself. Would you EVER trust him again?

Lastly, we are who we are by the time we reach adulthood. We are either honest, trustworthy, or we are not. He is not.

180 has begun.

I'm in the spare room, I made my own dinner just for me, and when he asked why, I told him that it's because I need space.

The dog is by my side, he's probably excited for an adventure in the spare room!

Already WP is off kilter by this.

Thank you for the advice. This is horrible but it feels like I'm doing something.

Very important: It must be real detachment. Not a performance, not to achieve an outcome. True detachment only for yourself, to regain your center.

No need to have a hard 180, no need to be confrontational, actually avoid any drama he might try to cause with a simple "If we were actively working on our relationship I see how this could be an issue we would have to address. Since we are not, it does not concern me". Whenever he tries to start some shit. If he is politely cooperative, be politely cooperative and keep living your life as he does not exist emotionally for you.

Or something along the line.

No drama, but iron boundaries.

If YOU BOTH want to rebuild the relationship then he shall DEMONSTRATE you his committment.

Not you alone, it's not fair, you have been betrayed by him. You are the victim.
Read here and ask veterans how to implement the detachment fully, with zero drama and fighting.

No matters what is next it will be helpful to begin healing your wounds.

The 180 mean you are immediately out of infidelity. Simply because it's a statement you do not accept infidelity in yur marriage, and he has nothing to say because he is cut off already by the 180.
You call the shots. You decide if he is reconciliation material (he is not right now). You decide if to engage emotionally. You decide if he can talk to you about any emotional matters (otherwise just day to day chores and duties). You decide when how and why.

He decide nothing. He took away your power with betrayal, you took it back. And you will not give it again to an unworthy partner.

If he realizes that you are not accepting disrespect and his infidelity any longer, this will be a ice cold shower.

he might come to his senses or could be frozen and left behind.

No matter what, you will feel better.

Good luck Brother

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 4:35 PM, Monday, July 13th]

You're probably still in shock, with all sorts of contradictory thoughts and feelings rushing around in your head. Your thinking is not the best. I recommend riding the waves of your emotions until they start to settle down before making any big decisions. Give yourself another month or 4 to get out of shock

Do not use the 180 to get a response from him. Use it to get a response for you.

IMO, if R is on the table, communication needs to be maximized. The 180 minimizes communication. So even if you use separate bedrooms, communicating will give you the best evidence of whether D or R is better for you.

Also IMO, the more authentic you can be, the better for both of you. The cheating casts your whole relationship into doubt. Building a new relationship or rebuilding the old one starts from scratch. Basic questions need to be asked. It's a time to question every bond between you and to decide whether you want the bond or not. Figure out if you want to be with your H as long as you live.

Be yourself. Be the person you want to be. Find out if your H still wants to be with you as you really are.

Maybe you're a good match for each other; may be not. Now's a great time to find out.

You may have some significant cultural differences to navigate. My guess is that your H has some internal conflict over sex and love. Do you want to spend years while he works to resolve it with no guarantee of success?

Dig deep inside. Figure out what you really want for the long term. If you want to D, that's a business transaction you can initiate yourself. If you want R, then your H comes into the equation, and it's much more than a business transaction.

IMO, your M is salvageable if you both do the necessary work. You don't have to forgive your H, but you do need to accept his betrayals in a way that you don't keep going back to them. You need to process the grief, anger, fear, shame, etc. out of your body one way or another. Your H has to change from betrayer to good partner.

Processing the pain out of your body is something you need to do whether you D, R, or wait to decide. That can be more difficult than it looks, because you have to go through any barriers to releasing pain that you've adopted during your life. (Some of us stuff pain rather than feel it and let it go, and that won't work forever.)

You can't R(econcile) with an unremorseful WS. The best you can do is r(ugsweep), and that's a strategy that's likely to bite hard a few years down the line. You can heal alone, but R takes 2.

I'm a likely source for the 'BS heals BS, etc.') formula on SI back in 2011. I remember the person who gave it to ne, but she credited someone else for developing it, and I was early in healing, so I don't remember the source.

I got great strength from the formula. It told me I would be OK whether my W healed herself or not. Also, my source reminded me I wouldn't always feel as bad as I did then. I wouldn't recover quickly, but I would recover, whether the outcome for our M was D or R.

I hope you read 'BS heals BS; WS heals WS. together they heal the M, if they want to' and feel the same power.

BTW, the 3 tracks can go on in parallel. Your H can't heal you, and you can't heal him, but you most definitely can provide emotional support to each other And emotional support works, if it's genuine.

Hang in

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:42 PM, Monday, July 13th]

Terrible sleep last night, as expected.

Husband sent long messages this morning. Focused on giving me space and him working on himself, it sounded proactive but generic.

I will also work on myself, alone, for now, have booked individual counselling for Friday morning.

He also acknowledged not doing chores which is beside the point in this moment.

I have night shifts this week starting tonight so we won't really see each other much anyway until the weekend when we have a shared event.

I wondered whether we allow some time each week to communicate such as sat at the dining table? It's not comfortable or normal. We only occasionally would sit there for dinner so it would not be like old routines. Or is it better if he writes things down? Or just grey rock responses.

I have not replied to his messages, but at some point we will have to communicate something.

Forest,

You aren’t (yet) emotionally detached.

Understandable, but as said, the 180 is for you to reclaim agency and protect yourself. It’s not to be used to elicit a reaction, tha will fail because it is not a true 180.

Now the 180 Will elicit reactions from the cheater because you take all the power off the relationship to yourself.

There is nothing they can do about it: leave? You already left emotionally. Fight or drama? You don’t care to engage. Seek closeness? You don’t want infidelity in your life, they can’t pass that boundary.

A cheater stole your choice, agency and power through infidelity.
They feel powerful, it’s inebriating to many, that’s why you heat about the affair fog and dopamine highs.

You taking all back and shutting them down leave them miserable. They only have the affair left and they know it is fake and unstable, never meant to replace their relationship (otherwise they would leave it and find a new one under the sun. No need to cheat. Makes sense?).

But the initial reaction is likely to be just that. A reaction to try and regain control and power over the BS, not coming from guilt and remorse, not yet. It’s likely coming from craving the validation they lost (main driver in affairs) the one they took for granted, yours.

You were never supposed to find out, never supposed to not forgive, never supposed to leave.

After all in their fantasies cheaters are "James/ Jane Bond, sipping champagne from a crystal flute looking dashing to the admiring crowd "

Truth is, they are "the circus clown 🤡, stumbling around while drinking stale piss from a plastic cup".

That second image is what you are reflecting at them now with the 180 and it’s an image of broken dreams, highly humiliating to them.

So the first attempt will likely be a "Bond manouver" in their fantasy to reclaim their lost power, but soon they find out they are indeed just the circus clown 🤡 and will stumble again falling flat on their face.

That’s the moment when likely something will change:
- either they realize suddenly what horrible mistake they allowed themselves to do
- or they might spiral into the broken fantasy, running away from the reality mirror and desperately looking to find someone else who will allow them to return to the cheating fantasy of James Bond.

Either way it’s a harsh wake up, a bucket of frozen cold ice over their dopamine junkie heads.

That’s what you are likely seeing right now.

Understand this:

You put yourself in control right now.
You reclaimed self respect and agency from a betrayer.
You did so, because you see no empathy, no true remorse from your wayward partner. You didn’t do because you are an asshole, or a manipulative narcissist. You are the victim that stood up and said "enough, I won’t allow you to abuse me this way anymore ".

You are already in a better place than yesterday.

However, this is not an unshakable position just yet.
It’s a protection to give you room to get clarity about what you feel and a breath to begin healing the pain.

He will likely test and poke at it to try to find a weak spot and to make you collapse into his power once again.

If drama doesn’t work, it’s common that sweetness and closeness is the next tactic to test just how seriously they are in danger of you detaching.

Many people who are in the depth of pain and not truly able to detach will fall for it, because you are emotionally attached and you will see any breadcrumbs of affection as a sing and hope that things will go back to normal, like before.
And they fall, eager to reconnect, they confirm to the cheater that they are still under their full influence. That’s all they need to go back to their ego validation trip, and ignore any future attempts from you of detaching (it’s just a show, I still got him/her).

Things will never go back to normal. Even if you reconcile this is a permanent scar on your reality.
Understand this painful truth because you need to be ready to lose your marriage if you want to save it.

The message thing is telling. He is not comfortable to face your 180 in person, so he tests you with a different method, one he can better curate to poke you and gauge your reaction.

You don’t say how you responded, but I would not be surprised if you took it as an emotional opening to reconnect (at least is what I feel from your last post).

If if was anything more than a response along the lines of "I am glad you understand." Anything longer more heartfelt or ‘begging/ needy’, then he’s achieved what his ego wanted: you aren’t truly gone, he can reclaim control over you. No need to change himself.

Brother I don’t want to be unnecessarily hard, but for your own peace try to understand that the detachment is a necessity, not an outcome. And is not to reach an outcome.

Is to put yourself in a safe position so you can understand what you feel and you can look at your husband spoiled of all his control tools, lies and manipulation, to decide if he is truly waking up and feeling remorse or is just testing his power over you and cares nothing about how deeply it hurts.

So about talking. The 180 doesn’t bar you from talking or interacting with your wayward.
Just makes it so that you decide the conditions of any interaction. He has no say over that.

You don’t go desperately looking for the chance to talk (that’s neediness, not a 180. I understand that, but you need to understand too). You don’t over explain. You don’t apologize. You don’t commit or make plans above the mundane routine or duties.

He has to come looking for you first. If he doesn’t, there is nothing to talk about. If he does you can very well decide to listen, but this isn’t a reconnection just yet, not until you are convinced to a degree you feel comfortable with, that he is remorseful and willing to change.

Because he is the only person who can change himself, nobody else can force him to. It has to come from within.

Just like cheating, it must be his choice. It cannot be forced.

You can listen, engage. Just always on your terms, always the minimum, remember that it is him that should show vulnerability for once, not you, you were honestly loving and vulnerable and he wounded you deeply. He must be the one stepping out of his comfort zone.

You can allow it, but without dropping the guard and boundaries. Stay detached.

He will likely test you.
So you do the same. If he comes looking for you to talk you in the eye, very well. Listen, take your time to think, no emotional reaction, just "I heard what you say." No pressure no promises no outcome desires.

You will test his guilt, if he is truly starting to feel remorseful you should feel that.
It’s rare that a cheater feels remorse outright, especially if you found out and it wasn’t them who disclosed the infidelity.

Most likely they need time to wake the fuck up from the horrific crap they pulled on their partner.

It can happen or it can happen the cheater will never face their ghosts and never feel remorse or drive to change.

Depending how you implement the 180 and how well you protect yourself from his tests of power, you will feel where he truly is at this time, or if there is any chance.

Put yourself first.

I didn't reply to his messages. I haven't changed my phone settings so he will know that I read his messages.

We haven't seen each other today, he's been at work and I'm getting ready for night shift.

It's been a better day today than yesterday.

I have counselling booked for Friday morning.

I didn't reply to his messages. I haven't changed my phone settings so he will know that I read his messages.

We haven't seen each other today, he's been at work and I'm getting ready for night shift.

It's been a better day today than yesterday.

I have counselling booked for Friday morning.

Good, counseling will help you to regain your center.
Make sure the therapist is an expert on infidelity, there is a number of therapists that are skilled in other fields but terribly clueless about betrayal trauma.

That is very important to begin healing.

About messaging and conversations.
It's is not necessary that you ignore attempts to conversation if they feel honest (though I understand that message felt less honest and more generic "managing" attempt on your emotions).
Silence is also an answer. Sometimes says more than a thousands words.

You respond according to how you feel, if you feel it's genuine and deserves a response and your attention do it (just not opening up and being vulnerable, not not, not while you are hurting).

You seem intelligent, I think you already got the gist of how to detach even when one is still nourishing feelings.
Keep updating and keep on.

Cheering for you, I hope he will come to his sense at least, if not around.

Back on here to say there’s a possibility that he does not, and cannot, handle emotional intimacy. That might be one reason. It might mean that every time he begins to feel vulnerable what he does is screw things up by having sex with someone else because it pushes you away. I’m not sure that’s what’s happening here because he sounds much more like he’s addicted to sex, but you know him, we don’t. Whyever he’s doing it, it is his responsibility to fix. One thing I stress on here all the time…you cannot fix him and you cannot change him. Whatever he has going on he’s responsible for. The only person you can manage is yourself. Please make sure you see a doctor for stress and anxiety because there are temp meds that really help with that. Please make sure you eat healthy and if you can’t, get one of those liquid drinks with lots of protein in it. You absolutely positively have to focus on keeping your health. Everything else is a very poor second.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 3:29 PM, Tuesday, July 14th]