SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Haven't posted in a while. 15 months out of DDay.

My WW seems to be doing "the work" and our M has been improving. But it seems every month or so I get anger that just explodes, and I cannot contain it. And it's sabotaging our progress as a couple.

Latest example, we were out of town for my convention/vacation. We were intimate throughout the trip and on the last night we had too much to drink and proceeded to get into the act. She was asking for me to be "harder" in which I replied "one minute". I was drunk - having a hard time performing, and needed to slow the tempo. It also kinda fucked with my brain thinking if that was her command or whatever with her AP. The night didn't end good at all - and we got into an argument over it. Which I exploded saying "if you want to get fucked harder - call your AP. He can fuck you hard in a parking lot like you want!". That made things worse - but I expressed that her actions is what is causing this. We had 5 long hours in the hotel room until we could proceed to the airport.

I'm getting mean - and I'm not sure if I'm subconsciously sabotaging our progress.

I will say sometimes our weekly chats lack in substance. I know she understands my pain and trauma. But it's like I want to make her feel pain. But I'm missing something to truly be able to put this out of forefront of my head.

It feels like I'm the one messing everything up. But I was the one that was hurt. I was the one blindsided by her contempt and unhappiness of our M. Why do I keep walking on eggshells around her - when she should be the one walking on them.

Something is missing - any thoughts would be appreciated.

I really don't have much to add, other than this was normal for me too. It would seem that things would be going great....I'd let my guard down a bit....and then the anger would come rushing in. Something minor would set me off and I'd get absolutely flooded.

I did wrestle with wanting him to feel the pain I was feeling just so that he could understand somehow. Our MC had to point out that if I wasn't deeply devastated by the A....it probably wasn't a relationship worth working on. Eventually, I moved through wanting to somehow punish him (a bit) for his shitty choices. At the end of the day, he has/had to live with the consequences of them. Those consequences took years.

It is so unfair that you have to heal from this and also be a part of healing the marriage....but it is the reality of the situation you're in. It helped me to know that I could choose to tap out of the marriage anytime. I didn't have to stay and work on things if it became too much. I'm now 6+ years out and our marriage is so much better than it was. I'm sorry you're here.

Anger, to me, is healthy to a point and needs to be processed — not buried.

It’s a hard earned, righteous anger.

When I got tired of being sad and depressed, that’s when my anger surfaced in a big way.

This is kind of the part where I figured things out.

Infidelity is as painful as and unfair as about anything I have dealt with before, and I had to decide whether I could make peace with the person who caused the emotional trauma.

But first, feel the anger, explain it to your wife the best you can, it always helped me to talk about WHY I needed to vent it out.

It’s not a blame thing at this stage, everyone knows who did what. It is just an another step toward healing, regardless of what path you end up taking.

Just know, this isn’t sabotage — this is pain that needs to be heard and shared.

It isn’t easy for any partner to see it, but they kind of need to approach it the same way when they reach out knowing you are sad.

I really needed to vent all my anger, and once I did get it all out, I was able to handle my triggers and flashbacks better.

Once I knew my wife would never completely KNOW my pain, I stopped trying to even the scales of justice or injustice.

That’s kind of when I accepted that I will always, always hate the A.

Then I started to allow my wife the room to be better and do better, without calling her out for those horrible choices on a routine basis.

You’ll get there or not, but nothing wrong with sharing your anger. I think it is far better than burying it, that becomes resentment pretty fast.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 5:37 PM, Monday, July 7th]

Anger is part of the process. It’s a stage of grief that can’t be skipped over. It can be managed to a certain degree, but it’s a necessary part of the healing stage.

Anger can get stuck, because it’s a "stronger" stance" or a "higher frequency" emotion than sadness. But I do not think you were saying this earlier so I am just assuming this is naturally the phase you are in. It will cycle through like the other phases- just know healing isn’t linear and it will come and go and stay for shorter periods, becoming less intense in time.

While it can derail a fun time it is also helpful for her to learn triggers. Making sexual requests that can be construed as criticism should be one she should be able to anticipate, but she didn’t. It’s insensitive given the circumstances.

However, with alcohol involved it may have been more of a profound event than otherwise. As a recovering ws I found I had to give up alcohol, and I pretty much have kept it that way because I like myself better without it. You two may find it helpful to forego for some period of time because it does sometimes escalate situations. Other than that, my advice would be to feel it. That’s how it will process.

[This message edited by hikingout at 5:48 PM, Monday, July 7th]

I'm guessing my issue is expressing the anger and pain that isn't personal. On my side, I can't continue to attack her if R is going to be successful.

I'm guessing my issue is expressing the anger and pain that isn't personal. On my side, I can't continue to attack her if R is going to be successful.

Unless I am misunderstanding — it is all personal.

Are you asking are their healthier ways to share it?

Yes, but it shouldn’t include you walking on eggshells.

If you haven’t vented it out, it will boil over. It just does.

It sounds like you want to take the edge out of your anger, and that can be done, once you feel heard.

We do eventually tend to get the relationship we aim for.

You don’t have to ‘attack’ to balance the scales, but it sounds like this is what you want to work on for you.

Just keep your wife in the loop, it would be good for her to know why you are struggling with the anger.

Just keep your wife in the loop, it would be good for her to know why you are struggling with the anger.

Agree. It has to all come out. It can’t all be sanitized. However, it may help of you try to add talking about it when it’s not boiling over. There will still be some boiling over but in my opinion sometimes that’s because you are trying to hold it in until you can’t.

And the better you get about talking about it, then the better you may know what you need the most from her when you are flooded with the big emotions. It could be anything from needing space to needing to be held. I used to deal with the big emotions by going for a run. I would feel them, listen to rage music and accomplish some of my personal best times, often followed or accompanied by a good cry.

Maybe abstain from alcohol for a while as well, both of you.

I'm upset with myself for lashing and attacking her with the attack. It felt like a low blow - even though I am still downright disgusted with her actions. I have a history in our M of hitting with low blows.

And we were really having a good month. Our trip was fantastic. Full of intimacy - both kinds - laughter, playfulness, romance, and great conversation. Just upset that I really blew it up on the last night of it.

Now I know that the past is the past. And the anger and the way I am expressing it is coming from a different place after her A.

I'm pissed that I feel like I am the one screwing this up. When her A is what is screwing this up. She has a hard time understanding that her A has traumatized me and hurt me in ways I never thought I would experience. And that my anger really swells up now. Especially when we are not moving through the pain in our conversations and sometimes just around it.

Kinda venting here. Using this place to organize my thoughts and feelings on all of this. Not really a conversation I can have with friends and family dealing with this particular issue (intimacy).

She has a hard time understanding that her A has traumatized me and hurt me in ways I never thought I would experience.

This sure sounds like your loop, right here.

You do not feel heard or understood.

Until you do, that anger will flood.

And after a bit it will become resentment. Just based on how I processed my own situation.

This is where our MC helped us. He pointed out that I was still walled up — because getting back to vulnerable is the toughest part of R.

Especially when we are not moving through the pain in our conversations and sometimes just around it.

Pain left unsaid becomes depression and anger, at least around my house.

Venting here is great, it helped me a lot.

However, it really sounds like you need to explain or re-explain to your wife what you have told us here.

My wife never posted here, but she read the forums. She saw all the pain in the Just Found Out forum, and she read about other WS processing and figuring out how to help their BS here. She thought all of her rationalizations for her choices were somehow original, until she spent a day on SI.

I think you exploring your anger issues is good. That said, some of it is truly righteous anger and needs to be let out. Here or in the gym or IC/MC.

All of that is great, but not enough to change anything until you feel like your wife has a much BETTER grasp of the pain you are experiencing.

How are you expressing your anger and pain between outbursts? Not at all?

My wife used to think I was basically unstable because I would try to have "good periods" but they only really happened because I wasn't revealing my constant turmoil, so when I finally went over the edge and expressed myself, to her, it was out of nowhere. To me, it was barely any change.

I found it worked a lot better to just express my near constant pain and frustration, and that alone helped to make it stop being at the front.

You should be able to have the conversation you are having here with us, with her.

All that said.....

Your last DDay is arguably Sept 2024 broken NC, not 15 months ago. Puts you at less than a year out and anger is normal.

As others have pointed out, we all go through anger stages. Been there, done that. I always knew the definition of rage, but feeling rage is another ballgame.

The best advice I could give you is to immediately disengage whenever you feel it coming. Take a walk or a bike ride (no cars, drinking or drugs). Take as much time as you need to calm down and really think about why you're feeling that rage, what triggered it, and whether and how it's helping you.

Recovery and healing is a long journey. It can take years. Don't be too hard on yourself, brother. This shit isn't easy.

I can understand how lashing out hasn’t made you feel better. What this is fine said expressed what I was trying to say in my earlier post. Let it out more during periods when things are calmer. You can show your anger and disgust, but you do not want to do it to the extent that now you feel badly about yourself.

I think you are holding it in, and it’s like shaking a can of soda and opening it when you get triggered. The more the two of you can communicate in between will help the two of you navigate when you are triggered and feel less in control. There will be context built between you. It will help her know what you need.

You say low blows is a pattern for you in your marriage. I think it’s hard to see when you are in it, but it’s not the optimal time for you to try and deal with your pre-A issues. I am sure for her it feels like continued disrespect, but somehow she needs to see this is not that. You will need to learn why this is a pattern and create ways to cope without doing it, but I would not put high expectations around that right now. Letting some of it out is how you heal. Is it hurtful what you said? Sure, but that is a scratch compared to the gunshot wound of an affair. Give yourself some grace because right now expecting never to do something you have always done may not be realistic.

I like unhinged’s advice because to resolve the issue you are having it’s difficult to do that at the same time your emotions are flooding. She needs to understand that flooding more. Physical activity is a really helpful way to manage. I used to run and listen to raging sort of music and O made some of my personal bests. When I would get back, I was clearer and would sit and talk about everything without quite the edge on it.

This is fine is also correct when he says your timeline is really since September. I do not think it’s helpful to say things like you said, because in the end it doesn’t help you feel better. But I also think if you give yourself some grace it will allow it to flow out much easier.

I appreciate all the answers and honesty. I do have a problem with my anger being destructive rather than constructive. It's been like that way for a while. Though I do convey my hurt and pain to my WW - I always hold a bit back for fear of hurting her feelings or fear of pushing her away (what a mind fuck eh?). We are talking tonight for the first time since the incident. I'm thinking of printing this thread and the "R Land" thread for reference to let her know what I am experiencing.

I can empathize with your frustration and feelings.

It’s like you want the cheater to really understand the pain they have inflicted (but they just cannot understand the depth of it all).

You want the cheater to stop appearing to be happy and "fine" while we the BS feel hopeless, miserable, anger etc.

It used to idk me that I slept 45 minutes a night (if I was lucky enough) because of his affair and he was sleeping the night away with out a care in the world. Until I planned to D him (that’s when he started having trouble sleeping).

I still had some resentment and anger at 5 years out. There are times I just exploded and it just could not be helped. Maybe 2-3 times per year.

It did eventually subside. Thankfully.

Hang in there. It will get better.

I do have a problem with my anger being destructive rather than constructive. It's been like that way for a while.

Two things I never considered I would deal with in life were infidelity and paying a psychologist to hear me complain about it.

As it turned out, my IC/MC guy was also a betrayed spouse — he told me that at the end of our near six months of me venting.

Anyway, he told me anger is a secondary emotion — and it took me a while to understand that. I’m still not 100 percent on it, it sure feels like it can be a primary emotion. But as he understands it, anger rolls out of pain, fear, shame and is a protective reaction more often than not.

It sure was constructive for me to process and eventually ditch my anger phase of healing.

Destructive anger could be other stuff, more than your current pain dealing with infidelity.

I had some of that due to some childhood abuse - I had a step-dad for a while who beat me like a drum, as one example of some pain that made me more angry than most as a young adult. I got to vent that out by serving with the US Marine Corps for six years. My anger issues turned out to be pretty tame when you’re hanging out with a group of guys who are trained to be unkind to enemy combatants (mix with alcohol on off duty weekends, and one’s learning curve can be a bit of a freight train).

All that and diplomacy is an unexpected skill I gained in that era.

I still got pretty angry after infidelity. All the diplomacy and calm in the world couldn’t stop the anger. In that sense again, be kind to yourself, some of it still normal.

In fact, I’d say you’re pretty damn self-aware on the issue, if you’re calling yourself out at this stage of your healing. I think you will figure it all out.

I’m glad you’re going to sit down with your wife and talk some of this out. I hope it goes well. I hope she hears you.

Also to add — a few wise mentions by others about alcohol — I can add it never, ever helped me. I only spiraled more when I drank and it amplifies all the bad stuff.

I quit drinking for a couple years altogether during R and it helped. I have one drink or two a year now when family gathers for a holiday type of deal. Just an FYI, not any kind of telling anyone how to live.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 9:13 PM, Tuesday, July 8th]

I'm guessing my issue is expressing the anger and pain that isn't personal. On my side, I can't continue to attack her if R is going to be successful.

You pretty much have answered your own question. The devil is in the implementation.

It’s also not enough to cut the attacks. I pretty much did what you did for a year as sport. Say the most destructive thing I could think of and watch her shatter. But I way overstepped and realized I became a true monster. Deliberately causing this woman who was doing her best to salvage her life. She was drowning and instead of throwing her a life preserver, I would toss her an anvil. I despised myself and vowed to stop that behavior. I pretty much did, not 100% compliance, but pretty good.

What I was never able to do was to take those thoughts out of my own head. I wouldn’t say terrible things, but I thought them all the time. In my head when she was having a good moment, I would think how can you be smiling after what she did. Of course this was terrible on my part, everyone deserves some happiness.

What ended up happening was I didn’t attack, but I didn’t engage either. She would take my hand when we walked, and my first thought would be when can I let go. Even knowing how much she needed a normal human connection. I have described my behavior as polite. But polite wasn’t what was needed if I was ever going to get my feelings back. I needed to make her feel special again. Something I was unable to do and a driving force behind my decision to leave.

So my point is in the long run just not attacking will not work. It needs to go further to where you can get the attack thoughts out of your head and the anger that goes with it. You are still early out, and from your past posts she has not been honest and has reached out repeatedly to the AP. I hope that has ended, and by the way if it happens again an attack ( never physical) is totally warranted. But you need to get to a point where the anger is pushed down far enough that it doesn’t manifest in an attack, or a cold shoulder. Easy to describe, but difficult to do. I couldn’t.

I think that most betrayed spouses need to get to acceptance. Then the hateful thoughts may dissipate.

What was the outcome of this incident. How did she take it?

But you need to get to a point where the anger is pushed down far enough

I wanted to talk about this. Pushing it down is not the answer either. It has to move, resolve. Acceptance is the ultimate answer, but will only come after feeling and transforming all the feelings.

I think old wounds described it well. You have to identify the feelings under the anger. They say anger is sad’s bodyguard. People will gravitate towards it to avoid vulnerability. After infidelity, a lot of the triggers we have are caused by vulnerability.

You were vulnerable that night in the alcohol effecting your performance. Her words to you adding to feelings of emasculation.

Men are sort of taught not to be vulnerable, to be strong. I think this is probably the root as to why more men file for divorce after infidelity. But recognizing you own your masculinity, not her, may help. You have to get beneath these things and see them differently, as well as give yourself permission to feel the feelings and let them pass. I think if you already had issues with anger it may be helpful to work with a therapist surrounding this issue.

It’s perfectly normal that you reacted the way you did. After all, vulnerability is only given to those we trust. She needs to be consistent and intentional about building that trust, which was certainly muddied by her inability to go NC. This not only caused trust issues over the continued contact, but she seemingly was choosing him over you.

As a ws who also experienced issues letting the Ap go, underneath all that it wasn’t a competition between guys. It never was. The Ap wasn’t all a great person, and he was old enough to be my father. The issue was the affair feelings, and choosing my own selfishness. The idea thatI risked losing the far better man, our life together to chase feelings based on literally nothing was a hard pill to swallow. Your wife should be sounding like this by now. The anger you feel undoubtedly cokes from that vulnerable place of is she just settling because it’s easier or because he didn’t choose her. I think I would ask her about that directly and gauge her response. If she doesn’t realize she wasn’t choosing either of you but herself is a hard one to comprehend. It’s because affairs are about self adulation and not love. She should be able to be putting those bricks together if she has any chance of moving in the ways that will build trust. It has to be more than she is being nice and giving you plenty of sex.

Why did I go into all of that? Because whichever state she is in, you have doubts and this will continue to lead to vulnerability/sadness that you will avoid with anger. It’s natural. Anger is a higher vibrational emotion. It makes us temporarily feel like we are in control when we feel loss of it.

So this is what I mean, it’s not pushing it down it’s understanding it, and understanding what you need from her to start turning it around.

Hard to say why you have always had it. My guess is there has always been an underlying insecurity. Whether or not that’s just always been there or if it relates to your marriage only. Good things to think about and explore.

When you know your answers, in those moments you will be able to change the patterns if they are not serving you. And I don’t think they are because afterwards you feel shame for your reactions.

A good book for you two to read and discuss- "rising strong" by brene brown. Listen to the chapters together and talk about it. She helped me understand that my unwillingness to be vulnerable kept me blocked from have a true connection with my husband. I was very self protective because I didn’t think I was worthy of love. I wore a mask a lot of the time to cater to what I perceived to be his wishes about who his wife would be. Some of it I was right about, and I had to become authentically me and trust him to adjust. It’s worked very well, but I had to be willing to lose the marriage in order to be brave. I had to make a commitment to myself that hiding from everything was making me sick on ways I was hurting others.