SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Today my wife told me she was planning, later in the year a long weekend trip with her best friend. She has been her lifelong friend and they haven’t travelers in years.

She said: oh I hope you won’t be mad I want to go on a long weekend to Rome with her.

Let me be perfsctly clear. I want her to go I want her to feel she can decompress from parenting, enjoy a holiday with her friend every now and again.

She was even careful on how she said it and even said she knew Italy is a bucket list place for me and that we could go together at a later point.

I however fumbled. My initial reaction was to ask if she Aleš red to go partying for the weekend (in which case, what would be the issue she goes to see a band of her choice) and my reaction wasn’t all happy go lucky.

Undid however said yes sure. Not emphatically so, tho.

And I also said she dint have to go with me anywhere to compensate for this if she doesn’t feel like it. Some context: at one point in her healing journey some months ago she said she wanted to stop intimacy and overly loving physical contact until she felt like it (she was doing it to make me happy) and I said this from this perspective, that she needn’t make me happy by offering a possible holiday together in the future. This also didn’t land well. (Shocker :D)

It all led to a short argument. O tres to make it perfectly clear what I meant. And that I really want her to do the trip.

She is bummed that my reaction was so and that demotivates her to do so. I asks for her to allow these moments of discomfort I may show even for a minute or so sometimes. She says it shouldn’t even be that. We ended up in good terms, she doesn’t want to discuss this further and I made Shute she knows I want her to go.

I want her to be happy, to do this trip (and others) I am flattered and excited she even considers future possible trips with me, even if they don’t come to be…

Maybe there is a better approach to this. O think these opportunities for her to visit her friends and do mini holidays are a great healing opportunity for her and I am all in, even if my "on the spot" reaction may not show it immediately.

O want her to know this and I want to get better at reacting thin a way that makes her feel even more supported.

Any tips are welcome!

Thank you.

She came later to tell me another friend may join if she can find a way because she has a daughter an I responded positively and even offered the kid could stay at home with us (we have 3 daughters) if that helps.

Life provides opportunities. I try to grow. I hope in the future I can have this reactions from the start

No stop sign, tell me, what did you feel at first emotionally?

This is the key to read it better, I can try to help you but is the important missing piece

Hi, BackfromtheStorm,

So… since the affection and most physical contact was removed from the equation (we are a little bit closer now, massages, casual contact) I am very anxious. I see every time away as a potential for her to finalize decision of leaving me. After all, the fist time she took a few days to visit friends and family and decompress from parenting after ages she came back and decided to stop doing all these things as a "favor" to me.

So, logically there is that component of fear attached to this.

I am also working on myself bit presently my sense of self worth is a bit all over the place. I am still struggling with feeling of guilt for all I put her through and not being enough, as a father, husband, man of the family…

I understand they her healing needs these breaks, this time for herself, to be able to enjoy and rediscover who she is after years of being primarily a mother, a wife (and a betrayed one at that…)

I understand all this pragmatically, but emotionally I feel "left behind", defeated, and simply sad.

Given a few minutes and talking a bit I do come around and I am happy (genuinely so) for her. And I see the value this brings to her life and indirectly, our journey.

Fear of loosing her as my romantic partner and love is a very high feeling at times. Uncertainty is not a nice place to be for long periods. But I am doing my best to make it my space for the time being.

Ok Matias I sensed that.

I am blunt with both bs and WS when explaining, please understand it’s to break through the ego bullshit and to accept the reality of things, not to take away hope, I like when people manage to heal and reconnect, it’s to lay out the lies and pitfalls the chaos of betrayal and the trauma associated put on the path of a real reconciliation.

The feelings you experience are absolutely understandable and predictable as you are likely projecting into your betrayed wife the traits you discovered in yourself when you found out you were capable of cheating.

I can tell you that it is not what is going on with her, and it’s your inside voice whispering to you the same stories you have told yourself during the betrayal.
You can quiet that voice by focusing on your healing, often that is caused by low self worth and people pleasing, and I swear I can smell that from your post, along with the unhappiness that you feel while trying to play on the same people pleasing patterns.

And I can feel your pain, you have my sympathy, truly.

Yano’s you likely want to understand what might be happening to her I believe, so here is my guess having worn her shoes.

Physicality death is normal, there could be some in trauma bonding but the intimacy you had is truly dead, she is likely abstaining from it right now because she has been suffering the severance of the emotional connection with you when you destroyed your relationship with the choice to cheat.

Does this mean she doesn’t love you or she is opening to another man? No, it doesn’t work like that. If that was the case she would have already walked.

The fact she is in your life still speaks volumes about how much she loved you, and that she wants at least to try again to build something new.

It might not be yet at a conscious level, many bs initially think about resurrecting the old relationship, but that is a lie the pain tells us, to try desperately to pretend "it didn’t happen ".

Truth is, it happened and the consequences are permanent. You betrayed her. You betrayed yourself. You are no longer the version of you who would never inflict the deepest wound a partner can bring to their significant other.

That version of you is also dead and will never come back. You have to accept this harsh reality first, then healing which means killing the version of yourself who can cheat his woman and bury it in the graveyard next to the innocent version of yourself and your previous relationship with your wife, a painful memento for the new, healed version of yourself, the man who would vomit at the mere idea to do that to your woman and to yourself.

Notice I talked about your healing process here, because that is the true focus for you. You can’t heal your wife, you can’t please her, you can only be present and supportive of the healing she does herself. Soon enough, when she sees you are changing to become a safer person, she will be truly supportive to you as well.

Reformed wayward have it hard because you have been the cause of it all. Betrayed partners suffer deeper to a level you’re likely to never fully understand, but they will heal better than cheaters, because they did not betray their partners and they didn’t betray themselves, that turns the pain into strength on the long run, just after the hellish roller coaster ride through the abyss run its course over the years.

The wife who did not walk, is trading a fast healing and a new life with a safer partner for giving you a second chance that nobody ever deserves. Imagine instead of running away from you who stabbed her, she holds the knife you planted in her heart and your hand holding it, and she keeps walking your path with you at her side instead of tending to her wounds.

This should at the very least answer to your question "did she truly love me?". Yes she did, she likely still does, you don’t suffer like that for anyone. Now it’s up to you to deserve to be at her side.

And the only way is through healing.

You must reconnect from zero with her. That means no pleasing, not feeling unsecured and performing, that means you need to open up completely and show your vulnerability. And I know this terrifies you, it’s understandable.

The lack of sex is what scares you because you connect with her through physical intimacy. She gets physical desire when she connects with you emotionally.

That requires safe attachment.

Betrayal causes the attachment wound to her nervous system, that makes her feel this

I am not chosen, I am not enough, I am replaceable

This is one of the deepest wounds a human can ever experience.
You need to drive her system to heal this wound.

It will be a roller coaster even when sex resumes, if you both are healing right, there will be ups and downs moments when she feels connected and close, moments when she will play mind movies of you with the other woman and will feel the urge to vomit and run away from you.

I must tell you because you need to know the challenges that lie ahead. It is almost universal and impossible to prevent, even if you heal there are bound to be thosE moments, and it will hurt you in many ways. That’s why you must be really strong and grounded to get through those downs, is where all can break (bs developing the ick and ultimately detaching from the cheater). But if you healed enough to get stronger, this is where you can be present at her side and help her heal the attachment wound.

I understand your needs and frustration right now, think if you feel you are ready to face this challenge beyond hysterical bonding, because it is a matter of time before it pops out when intimacy resumes.

What I mean by this is: you likely want to start building (forget rebuilding, is building from zero, new relationship, new foundations) emotional connections with your wife. She is strong, she needs to learn that you can be vulnerable other than regretful, that includes your fears and feelings that you confessed here.

It’s counterintuitive for a WS but for the bs who feels they matter, because you are afraid to lose them, this is a healing balsam.

Just look inside your heart first and clear it from the low self worth issues and fears, it works because you truly feel they matter. It doesn’t work if the push comes from the fear of being alone or abandoned. The first whisper "becoming a safe partner " the second screams "anyone goes, I am replaceable "

Which message do you want to send her and which one do you truly feel right now?

There’s no judgment if it’s the second, but if it is that case you found where your real enemy hides and you can dig him out to eradicate him for good.

It is the first, it truly is…

I want to become a person she and my daughters deserve. They always deserved. It is really hard to avoid a modicum of self loathing (or a lot sometimes) I am trying to heal, some days I can see a sliver of hope ahead. O know I must do it for myself and show up every day.

I know my fears are projections or ghosts of my own making and I know the mere fact that she is showing up, doing therapy with me and for herself and that we have a really good day to day relationship speaks volumes to the value she is attaching to the story we had together. And maybe the potential of a new one to be written.

I don’t want my old relationship back. I don’t want that version of me that hurt her, I want to start a new one, where I get to show my family who I am capable of being. Where my wife gets the spouse she deserves.

Thanks for your thoughtful and deep answer. I know it is not an easy road ahead, o know there are no warrantees. I also know it is through this path I need to transit that I will find my growth.

Then this is very good, it means you have the drive behind you not just the void neediness.

I would say it is the first step towards a stronger you.

You have to beat the self loathing first, it is sneaky because while it sounds as positive (feeling repulsion towards betrayal) it likely is self commiseration, a twist of the same feeling that allows the betrayal to happen (I am not good enough, I deserve this, this is something that makes me feel in a higher position towards the OP, etc… this stuff).

It is probably one of the hardest milestones to achieve at the start, but you have to own it like a man, "yes I did this crap. I chose to. And I knew the pain it will cause." And realize within your inner self what you are already seeing and feeling, but not just emotionally, you need to own that too " I regret it because it was a weaker version of me that doesn’t reflect who I truly am, who I want to be. I loathe it and I will kick his ass and prove that I am a man, not an immature unstable child"

Because truly you can do it, you already are, just believe in yourself instead of self loathing.

And yes, showing the vulnerability to your wife is not weakness, is acknowledging. You are aware you fucked up not because you are weak, you allowed yourself to become weak by fear of connection with her, so you replaced with a safe surrogate, a fantasy that didn’t matter if you kept or lost.

But now you want to be real, with her, so opening up your fears and letting her to know you are fighting them is something that can help her to understand and reconnect

I don't have much in the way of sage advice or wisdom, but I just want to say that the fact you're here and asking questions like this demonstrates your desire to do better, to be better. Stay on this path and I think you will eventually realize a positive outcome, no matter what happens.

The important piece is that you have to want to change, and I think you do. Don't give up. Keep showing up, no matter how hard it is or how hard she is with you. Even if she doesn't show it or say it, she will see it. She will see that you're really in this.

I wish you the best.

Thank you,

some days it is really hard. Not because she makes it so. She has a fortitude and has granted me grace that I do not deserve, quite honestly.

It's hard internally, the uncertainty and the self loathing. I do come around, I must. For her, for the kids. But it is hard to do it for myself some days, and that should be the main reason, for my own sake, for my own growth. But at least I do it, as best I can.

Very good you are sharing. The thing you need is to be heard, to learn how to show your vulnerability out with strength, not fear.

From brother to brother (even if you happen to be older than me) you might get a bit of metaphorical ass kicking, but is to prop you up, not to bring you down.

So allow me to give you a first brotherly ass kick

some days it is really hard. Not because she makes it so. She has a fortitude and has granted me grace that I do not deserve, quite honestly.

First kick here. You are factually correct, nobody deserves a second chance after betrayal.

That said, there is a difference between the entitlement of feeling to deserve something, and when that something is freely given to you.

Your woman deemed you worthy enough, loves you enough, that she decided you ARE WORTHY of a second chance.

Get what I say here?

You fucked up, she says you "I still love you, please prove me right ", now is your turn to show your balls: make the best out of this chance.

No more self commiseration, no more shame or pity, but a proud " honey, thank you, my gratitude goes beyond words. I am not going to let you down again ".

You can’t know but you can imagine how hard it is for a BS to give this trust after a betrayal. Make it matter, honor her courage.

Low self worth is something that lead you to cheat to soothe insecurities in the first place. Your wife just raised your worth above what you ever likely imagined by her decision to stay.

And if she can see your value, be kind to her and start to see it by yourself, this is the first step in putting the weak "cheating insecure you" into the grave and replace it with the man you were always meant to be.

It's hard internally, the uncertainty and the self loathing. I do come around, I must. For her, for the kids. But it is hard to do it for myself some days, and that should be the main reason, for my own sake, for my own growth. But at least I do it, as best I can.

This is step 2 and I am proud you already have it clear.

You must do for yourself. All the other "for" are a natural side effect of you learning to fucking love yourself.

Yes I understand you feel what you have done sucks. Good thing man, you have integrity to be disgusted by your shortcomings. Embrace it because this voice is your true inner self clashing with the broken ego.

- The broken ego is a weak liar, telling you must self-loathe and feel uncertain because you did what you did because that is what you are.

Well that’s bullshit, if you were truly like your ego tells you, you would be right now fucking around with as many girls as you can, cheating on each one and feeling cool and fully happy about that. Do you feel that way or do that?

I don’t think so, so you’re already aware that voice is lying to you, as it did during the betrayal.

Don’t listen to it any longer, listen to your roaring pride that feels disgust for how you allowed yourself to listen to that voice before. And now you’re aware enough to ignore it.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice… you don’t want to be fooled again.

So tell that inner voice to fuck off and embrace your masculine energy of showing your wife she is right to trust you again.

You are already doing it, just set your mind energy on the correct frequency and even your brain chemistry will follow suit.

It’s here and now, you are building something new with a woman that showed you greatness, and you’re not only doing this for her, but for you.

Be worthy of her, by becoming worthy of the true you.

She already believes that, I think you should trust her judgment rather than the bullshit ego voice, that insecure guy can piss off.

You can do it

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 11:36 AM, Friday, April 10th]

The thing is... her Love is not a certainty. Currently she "does not feel it" she has closed herself up after my betrayals and she is showing up to couples theraypy and doing her own (so am I) So I am living in an "affectionless" marriage. Now, she IS giving me this grace and chance, that much you are right on, it also has to do with our life together and kids...

The uncertainty, knowing that I am fully inand not knowing if she will come around as she heals, that is a heavy cross to bear.

So yeah, today in particular is a heavy day. For nothing specific. I just woke up with a dark cloud over me.

Thanks for your kind words, sometimes an ass kicking is what we need :)

And by the way, you are right, I am trying to be better and I will tell that inner voice to FUCK OFF :)

The trust part, there is also a part of it that is up to her. I hope against all odds she does come around once more and I can truly show up for her in the way she and my daughters deserve. And above all, in the way I DESERVE, OWE MYSELF TO DO and KNOW THAT CAN DO. There is nothing I want more.

The thing is... her Love is not a certainty. Currently she "does not feel it" she has closed herself up after my betrayals and she is showing up to couples theraypy and doing her own (so am I) So I am living in an "affectionless" marriage. Now, she IS giving me this grace and chance, that much you are right on, it also has to do with our life together and kids...

The uncertainty, knowing that I am fully inand not knowing if she will come around as she heals, that is a heavy cross to bear.

So yeah, today in particular is a heavy day. For nothing specific. I just woke up with a dark cloud over me.

Thanks for your kind words, sometimes an ass kicking is what we need :)

And by the way, you are right, I am trying to be better and I will tell that inner voice to FUCK OFF :)

The trust part, there is also a part of it that is up to her. I hope against all odds she does come around once more and I can truly show up for her in the way she and my daughters deserve. And above all, in the way I DESERVE, OWE MYSELF TO DO and KNOW THAT CAN DO. There is nothing I want more.

Quoting for tablet comfort.

I get you, it’s natural, is relatively fresh, I will spare the kind of shit that goes through a betrayed partner because is not of the concern of what you need to do now to start healing. I can just confirm you how she feels is perfectly normal, I am a guy but in this process of being betrayed I think men and women suffer identically the differences are negligible, so I’m confident to say you that is normal that she both loves you and doesn’t love you at the same time, it’s a dissonance that demands it’s own time to heal.

You created the instability in the relationship and you are uncomfortable in it. This is natural too.

Where she is at is a place where she is trying to get back the agency that was denied and taken from her. And allowing you a second chance is even more destabilizing for her.

Put it simply: she is in a lonely ride through a roller coaster from her personal hell. And she has still enough strength to offer you her hand while she is drowning alone.
Do you really think expecting from her a "guarantee of her love" is reasonable at this very moment?

On the other hand, Matias, she fucking loved you, or nothing like this would ever be on the plate. You do at least now know the magnitude of her feelings "before" is only up to you to work out if you can rebuild "after".

While not a comfortable situation, should at least clearly show you the real value of the prize that this woman was and likely still is for you.

Now I will try not to go into generalization but it is something that can reflect your own experience and maybe help you to navigate this storm.

Often women need to feel emotional connection with their partner for their nervous system to feel safe and allow them emotional and physical intimacy.

Often we need to find connection with our woman through physical intimacy to strengthen the emotional bond with her. That’s my experience at the very least.

If your wife emotional intimacy was disrupted by your betrayal, and I can’t fathom how it could not have been, her nervous system will not be able to feel safe enough to relax into her feminine energy and allow her to be "affectionate " with you.

You on the other hand seem like me, the kind of man who seeks connection through physical affection for your nervous system to relax and connect with your woman.

That’s where the feeling of uncertainty likely comes.

And you might assume it is similarly to when dating someone and if you are not yet sure if they are partner material and safe to let your defense go and connect with.

However big difference: this woman ain’t no date, this woman is your wife.

You already know she is a safe partner. She is unstable now only because you weren’t.

This changes everything.

This is not the dating mating dance where you probe and poke and take limited risks to not get hurt.

This was a relationship that should have lasted your entire life.

You already know that.

So what’s your masculine energy telling you? That you should take baby steps to avoid getting hurt, or that you should show her nervous system that you realized, understood and accepted the damage that you have done her, and now you are ready to show up as a different person, ready to take care of her no matter what?

You already know what her nervous system needs to feel to relax in her feminine again. The only matter is what kind of energy you want to step in yourself to allow this.

Not as a planned performance to trick her, as the real you, the man who would never do this crap to her, that she can trust. And do that no matter what the outcome is, there is no tomorrow, no what is, there is today. No expectations, just pure presence and accountability.

You created the uncertainty, she did not trash you out of her life forever. Now it’s up to you to fix this instability, no matter the cost or the outcome you are doing for both of you, uncaring if you’ll find love again or you will end up separating. You must be ready to lose your partner if you truly want a chance to reconnect and rebuild.

Because this is healing, not a performance, and your only goal is both you and hear will ultimately end up healed from this pain and become once again able to live a fulfilling life.

And no matter the outcome that is what true love is.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 12:40 PM, Friday, April 10th]

I see things a little differently. Part of the work of a WS is to become authentic in our thoughts and actions. It's not realistic to become the Perfect Person who is never afraid, sad, vulnerable, disappointed, upset, or resentful. The question is what we do with those feelings.

Your BW wants to go on a trip to a destination that you've always dreamed of seeing, without you. You understand why but are grieving the fact that she would rather go with a friend than you. That's a natural reaction. Your wife was clearly hoping that you would be openly and genuinely enthused about her taking the healing step of doing something for herself. That would indeed be ideal, but it's also the kind of reaction that comes from a place of security and abundance, not fear and loss.

I will always be grateful that as angry as he was, my BH recognized that I was not going to catapult from deeply flawed to superhuman, even when giving my best efforts towards R. That doesn't mean we were on a level playing field. I dragged us into the mess we were in, and I had to be the one to give more grace. But letting go of the outcome, facing my shame, and working/waiting every day for months and years for tiny signs of progress is extremely stressful. If you chop off your own arm, it's your own idiocy at fault, but you don't bleed less than you would if someone else chopped it off for you.

Instead of framing this as a failure, I think you ought to consider an honest conversation with your wife. Do you have a history of passive-aggressive "it's fine, I'm fine" responses that are clearly intended to convey that it's not at all fine? Were you, in fact, trying to make her feel selfish or guilty in your response? Or were you just taking a moment to reset? Was this a test by her to see if you've changed? You can have changed and still have normal human feelings of disappointment and loss.

If you were playing games, then acknowledge that, apologize, and knock it off immediately. But if it was a true sense of sadness at another symptom of how you broke your marriage, I think it's better to express those emotions. Then pivot to reaffirming that "it's my job to work on that, and I genuinely want you to be happy, so please book the trip. I promise I'll get over myself and do everything I can to support you."

It´s definitely a case of the second. I am not trying to make her feel bad for it. I genuinely want her to go and we already talked further about it and she WILL go... I just felt a bit sad and my honest reaction was this, that´s all. I got over it, and I try to do better and grow.

I struggle with this balance of being honest / allowing my feelings to have presence, but also trying to avoid any unnecessary friction.

The place we are at now is, in great part, of my doing, and I have to deal with that fact.

does it give me an extra modicum of grief and guilt that hangs over my head at any given time? sure it does, does it, at times make me see things in a gloomy light? also.

"But letting go of the outcome, facing my shame, and working/waiting every day for months and years for tiny signs of progress is extremely stressful. " I can also relate to this very much. I see some progress, but at times it feels infinitesimal. Common signs of affection that before were commonplace, are no longer there. Do I want them back? You bet I do! I am looking forward to kissing her again with so much hope and warmth in my heart. And it is at times a hard place to be in.

I am not making this seem as it is any harder (not even close) to what I put HER through, I´d never make such claim. But... it is however challenging in many ways.

Moreover as I am trying to rebuild myself, struggling in many other aspects...

I will look back upon these days from a firmer ground in the future, I have no doubt about that, and all this will seem distant and i will probably have some gratitude towards this trying times and the man it made me grow into.

But as all trying times, it is really hard to see it when you´re in the thick of it.

To be clear, you don’t have to be super human or perfect in any way shape or form.

I clearly stated "no performance " perfectionism and perfection are a fantasy, unachievable, unobtanium.

Perfectionism and lays in the family of people pleasing and external validation, is part of those schema patterns that lead a partner in to cheating in a first place.

Believe it, no bs wants to see that performance ever again, they already have during the betrayal and now they are hyper attuned to spot it.

You always know when your partner is genuine or putting up an act. In a clean relationship you put up with that as a quirky moment and let it go, knowing they will recover their confidence and maybe have a laugh at it with you later in time.

In a relationship that was tainted by betrayal, any off vibe and suspicion of performances, throws your bs right in the moment of "it’s happening again, my partner is not honest with me ". Judge by your own meter how devastating this can be to your reconciliation attempt.

Truth is, your Bs never wanted you to be perfect or anything else than who you truly were and are.
There is no Superman or Wonder Woman you were or are competing with, because to your BS, you were already the chosen one.

Just perfectly perfect with all your goods, your flaws and your weaknesses.
Every Bs simply wants their little WS genuinely present at their best, with whatever imperfection they might have they are still perfect and irreplaceable. Your partner, the person who can show you their goblin face or share their most embarrassing moments with no fear of being ever diminished, on the contrary supported and celebrated.

The only think your bs wants is your sincerity, presence and understanding.

If that comes with true remorse for what you did, that’s a healing balm.