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Eric, you have the agency to decide that what you are getting from your WW is not enough for you, and to D and move on with your life. It is NOT 'too late' for you.

I know your IC had good reason to take a break, but I expect it feels like another abandonment to you. Don't underestimate the effect on you. My reco is to call to check in - if her daughter is still ill, your IC might appreciate hearing from you.

Another reco is to seek a new IC now. Delaying is another way of not saying what you want to say.

I have occasional low moods and one of these hit me like a train yesterday. Of course - I think I've made this clear elsewhere - I have to hide these moods from my wife, which is what I've done, more or less. It's like I'm being pushed, slowly but inexorably, towards the edge of a cliff. A complicating factor is that my wife is having a horrible time with her elderly parents at the moment. Her sister was killed in a car crash twenty years ago, and her brother died last year from cancer, so she's now the only one left. There's no way she can cope with that, and my unhappiness. So I bottle it up. What else can I do? But I can't bottle it up forever, I know that for sure.

Everyone has limits. You are doing your wife a disservice by taking away all of her agency about your angst that you have buried. It's better to share it as it occurs and allow her to live up to her part of the marriage, than to wait until you fall off that cliff and it blows up in her face.

No, because you had a torrid affair which I had to read about, and you'll do just about anything to avoid having sex with me.

This is very close to something I would say to my wife in the same situation. I have actually said similar, minus the avoiding sex part. You could always find a more gentle way to reword it too, but you really should just tell her how you're feeling. This bottling up of emotions and holding your tongue isn't serving you well at all. If you start practicing speaking what's on your mind, I think you'll find it gets easier and easier to do.

My wife is, well, used to be, avoidant, and I've always taken things head on and often wear my thoughts and emotions on my sleeve. I suppose if you were to meld us together you'd have something that lands in the middle and is close to ideal. She's gotten much, much better at facing things, speaking her mind, and becoming less avoidant since I discovered her affair. As you discovered, sweeping issues under the rug only prolongs the agony of your suffering. If the way you describe your wife loving you unquestionably is accurate, then she should be able to handle a dose of honesty and forthrightedness from you and want to help you get it sorted. Or at least give her an opportunity to tell you her side of things.

As far as reading over 15 year old emails from her affair goes, that sounds an awful lot like pain shopping and an exercise in self torture to me. I saw most of my wife's communications with her AP and her friends regarding her affair, and of course, there were a fair amount of very hurtful things said. They hurt to read. A lot. She feels horrible about it now. I didn't object to her deleting everything after I was given the opportunity to look at as much as I wanted to. I have no desire to re-read or revisit those words and feelings. It's only been 7 months since d day for me, but there's no rug sweeping happening in our situation, so there's no need for me to have to point to anything to remind her "but you said this!" I don't think re-reading any of that stuff is doing you any good either.

Can you ask your therapist to recommend a colleague that you can work with while she’s not working?

Eric, just having read all the posts on this thread, I am struck by the description of your wife's sexual history as being highly significant to where things are for you right now. If you wouldn't be opposed to reading a book on a very difficult subject, may I recommend ordering Ken Graber's Ghosts in the Bedroom...it is a powerful book by a therapist that explains the paradoxical lack of desire sexual abuse survivors can end up having for their beloved partners while they exhibit wanton behaviors with strangers. Sounds exactly like your WW's past history, and this book helped me understand my sex-addict wayward husband wanting to stay married to me at all costs while being a total cold fish, almost from our honeymoon on, and then betraying me just 3 years into what I was sure was our "happy marriage." He too is an avoidant person and stuffs his feelings just as you describe.

One warning is that if you do find this book, and it 'checks all the boxes' re: your wife's patterns, not to try to get her to "open up" about her sexual abuse history until she has dealt with it more in IC and can handle it with you. Sadly, if you were to do that you'd find yourself in the position of doing more damage; it is hard to explain this in a forum post. I just wanted to recommend this book to you since it helped me understand my spouse, and perhaps you will feel your perceptions about her validated.

All that doesn't change the fact that you have a right to have your feelings validated as an equal partner in this marriage. I hope this helps in some small way.

Bump by request

I just wanted to give an update regarding my situation.

My therapist's daughter thankfully got better so she was able to resume her practice, and my therapy resumed in January. I feel that the benefits of therapy come slowly, possibly not until after the therapy itself has finished. I have time and enough money, so I intend to continue my weekly sessions until I feel I no longer need them; months, probably.

If my therapy has a goal, it's to give me the strength to sit down with my wife and explain my feelings to her; my feelings regarding our lack of a sex life mainly, but also possibly the affair. I have taken a first step - I wrote my wife a letter and gave it to her, a couple of months ago. We haven't followed that up with a conversation yet, but that's my intention. This is incredibly difficult, probably due to my 'blocked' mental state. I am struggling to find the words that I will use. I'm not looking for advice: this is my challenge alone.

That's all for now.

Thanks for checking in - it really helps readers who are on a similar journey to see the progression.
Glad you are prioritizing your self, and hope you get what you are hoping for.

Well, a huge reason why being betrayed is so painful and cause such a deep anger and rage, is that they tend to illustrate what we feel is at least, a deep lack in us. Yes, other people are supposed to respect our boundaries. But we need to be strong enough to enforce our boundaries. You seem to have a deep pattern your entire life of not standing up for yourself--including stuffing your anger and rage, and so you do not respect yourself.

No doubt your not being able to stand up for yourself with your WW, is a big reason why your WW is not sexually attracted to you either, frankly.

Anyway, yes, your WW is 100% at fault for cheating, I edited this in and I should have been clearer with this the first time. It is on us to step up and enforce our own boundaries however when someone betrays us. And not doing that tends to engender the feeling of further disrespect--which is why the pick-me dance does not work. And so if this sounds harsh, I am in fact trying to get BHs angry so that they take action with their lives and stop playing the simp which is what you are doing now. You can find your voice and turn your life around--most likely without your WW that is--I hope you do so.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 2:16 AM, Monday, April 6th]

Writing the letter is a step in the right direction. Keep working on it. You deserve to express your feelings to your WW for both of your sakes. Don’t abandon the work. Good luck.

I'm always grateful for replies to my threads. Gotta be honest: I haven't a lot of time for the whole "simp" (and, by extension, alpha/beta male) philosophy. That's all.

...a huge reason why being betrayed is so painful and cause such a deep anger and rage....

A BS needs to get through the anger to heal. Anger is simply not the only thing that causes and expresses the pain of being betrayed. Too many people stay stuck in anger. Too many men, IMO, stay in anger because of their desire to fit image of 'alpha'.

Keep going, Eric. I think you may find it easier to assert yourself than you fear.

A BS needs to get through the anger to heal. Anger is simply not the only thing that causes and expresses the pain of being betrayed. Too many people stay stuck in anger. Too many men, IMO, stay in anger because of their desire to fit image of 'alpha'.

Keep going, Eric. I think you may find it easier to assert yourself than you fear.

That's an interesting perspective. I didn't acknowledge my anger after DDay, which was a mistake, but I'm not consumed with anger now, which would be a mistake. And thank you for the words of encouragement, which are worth a lot.

Wishing you luck with the therapy, Eric. It isn't easy to make deep internal changes to overcome instinctive behaviors, even if those behaviors aren't serving you well. I hope that whatever you decide in the future, you're able to do it with your head held high and your mind unburdened.

Eric, your definition of your wife sounds like you are explaining a hologram. There is no there there. She must have had a number done on her at some point to deprive her of a true sense of self worth. She gets validation externally because she does not have it internally. When we are valued as children we take that with us into adulthood. If it was missing then, it is missing now.

I might be completely wrong but you wrote how many men have had access to her physically. For a little while she would feel real. Instead of a pretty doll she was a loved human being. Her ability to feel sexual toward others could be because once she gives in she feels whole for a little while.

I hope you understand this is simply me reading what you wrote and might be completely wrong.

Eric1964 post #32

I'm always grateful for replies to my threads. Gotta be honest: I haven't a lot of time for the whole "simp" (and, by extension, alpha/beta male) philosophy. That's all.

A lot of people here tend to stay stuck for a very long time. SI, I am noticing, tends to view an affair as as much a sickness as a part of the WS, and thus tends to give advice which can be seen as encouraging a certain codependence on the part of the BH. Your WW not responding sexually to you? Well that is, all too often according to many posters on SI, just her SA or her faulty thinking in some way maybe due to FOO issues--and she needs time to get it. It is not emphasized enough , IMO, that an affair was a series of DECISIONS on the part of the WS, and that this is your life too and it is more-than-fair for you to be ANGRY about having a wife who is not responding sexually to you. Furthermore, if your WW was never sexually attracted to you or unable to have sex with you, then your marriage is a sham. Last but not least, codependent behavior on your part may be a reason why your WW is not sexually attracted to you.

We have to face the beast head on. It is extremely extremely hard to face it when it is our wife who is not responding sexually to us but is responding sexually to other men. And to stay in a marriage like that, is totally soul-crushing and emasculating. For our own survival things must fundamentally change.

I am not trying to be cruel with my words Eric, I am trying to jar you however. You CAN turn your life around but there is a lot more urgency here than the other posts here are letting on. Anger is more your friend than you realize. Otherwise you are likely to still be around still trying with your WW a few years later, a sad man.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 3:21 AM, Friday, April 10th]

Responding to Won’tbefooled. I do not push R or D. I do think he should weigh the survivors in the boat story. Your lifeboat can only hold one person. You are in the middle of the ocean. No land in sight. You see someone hanging on to a piece of wood. If you pull them on board you both sink. That might be the story here. In fact I sadly believe adults don’t change their basic personalities so the wife is who she is. What I was trying to do is get OP to understand he had nothing to do with the behaviors or the destruction she has caused. It was just to help him see what might be hard for him because of the trees/woods.

Eric- the work you are doing for yourself is very valuable. You deserve a satisfying relationship in every single way, emotionally, mentally, and physically.

I can relate to you in not always stating, standing up for my needs or feelings. What you describe about therapy is it’s slow and subtle, and I agree, but for me it did lead to a place where I take my own side more and more. It starts with the awareness gained though exploring your thoughts and feelings in therapy, and a lot of practicing. It’s a two steps forward and one step back process. Because you know what it’s hard to forge this path so expect reversions and then leaps forward.

And if your wife doesn’t go to therapy for herself and start to look at herself more deeply at this time what you will find is she is not going to be able to meet you where you will come in your growth. I didn’t read all the older parts of this thread, my apologies if you have stated if she is or isn’t working in her own progress. The idea you gave her a letter and no discussion has been made surrounding in the months since indicate to me that she isn’t doing that work. It sounds like you are two avoidant people and when you decide not to be avoidant anymore this dynamic is going to escalate. I see that as a good thing, though. Sometimes it takes that level of friction to make changes occur- whether that change is R or D no one can predict. But you have made the important steps to become a healthier you and that is amazing and fantastic and takes a great amount of effort and bravery.

I look forward to your updates in the future. Thanks for coming back!

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:33 PM, Friday, April 10th]

Won’t be fooled- I think anger can be constructive but that you can not really induce some ones anger with advice, this is why it’s never constructive. It comes across mostly as victim blaming and I have come to know that is never your actual intention.

Lets say Eric said okay you are right I am being "weak" and need to stand up for himself, that is a journey for a lot of people not a switch someone can jus flip. Because it’s not truly that one is weak, it’s that their life experiences have led them to be ruled by avoidance of conflict. For many that is a deeply seeded thing where you have to become aware of the origins, change perspectives, practice new ways to communicate, and resist your natural tendency to just work around it rather than confront it.

That is simply the opposite of your personality. But it would be like me telling you that you are too hard on people when they are at their most vulnerable, you alway find a way to maintain your status quo because you only believe in one solution. And you will always tell me why that’s the right way. And that’s okay, I accept that you see things that way and I know your intentions to be good.

This site sounds like it does because most of us go to therapy and are working to become more balanced in our approach to life. People are who they are, yourself included and the descriptions of what creates change in people outside of anger is foreign to you. The processes used in therapy are also foreign to you. That’s not an insult, not everyone believes in therapy, but you are in a site that vastly does. You won’t change that aspect.

Personally, I have an issue with anger, I am not good at it. My mother’s anger was always so prevalent that I would advocate for whoever was at the eye of her storm because her reaction was always over the top. So I associate anger as negative when I logically know it can be healthy. Logically knowing that doesn’t change that I am conditioned to not feel it and lean into a different emotion instead. For you, I would assume you associate someone being in a vulnerable spot as an unnecessary weakness, I am sure that has to do with your conditioning and think people should avoid it so just like I do with anger.

The truth is we are all doing the best we can. We all have different conditioning that takes time to be reconditioned to make change. It’s not a sickness we are diagnosing in a bs, it’s a verifiable road map that we are using and trying to help others apply.

Same for ws- ws obviously have some undeveloped or maladaptive areas in ourselves that there is a road map to navigate towards growth. Where we agree is many ws will not use the map, and will not do the hard work to make changes.

However, that can be applied to bs as well and all the people (ws and bs alike) that are here sharing their tender issues during some of the worst places in their life are striving towards those changes. That is one acknowledging they need help and they want to know what others are doing.

Sharing deep deep shit that is hard to look at takes huge courage and already demonstrates the do not want to stay where they are right now. In the midst of devastating trauma it’s not a straight line because there are so many things one can not control in that state. Yet they are here in the midst of their confusion trying to understand various aspects and that make each and every one of them an undisputed BAD ASS!

Not all things can be solved by logically understanding something.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:27 PM, Friday, April 10th]